Don't Fear the Reaper

Death comes to us all, but what about our characters?  I know a lot of people are so terrified of their character dying, they choose to not act.  Do you think being afraid of losing a character has kept you from heroic actions?  What is so hard about losing a character?  Let's discuss. Do you think having a backup character ready to use takes away from the character you first play?

Personally, I am torn. I rarely get to play so I am slowly being consumed by a need to recklessly throw myself into whatever the GM puts in our way. It's not that I don't care about my character but right now it's about me squeezing as much fun as I can from a session since I don't know when my next fix is coming. However in the old days when we were in James' Against the Giants Campaign and I was Gromwald The Great I was a different player. I loved my gnome druid, still do, and would have done anything to avoid his death even abandon a doomed party to live and fight another day. That doesn't me I didn't fight, I was always in the trenches casting death and heals whenever I could but if the party was clearly about to fall I was not staying to lose my character if I didn't have to. Some players like to claim that I left them to die but Chad can vouch that if I could save the dead I brought them back. Death is a real fear when you love your character but you sat down at the table to play.

Personally I can't stand when death occurs because of other characters not paying attention (though I have been the guilty party on one or two occasions. We boyz Dar-Breezy.) That being said, it also depends on the character. For example, my current toon Callaghan of the Many Colors has taken the opportunity to swing his staff at some enemies. However, he's squishy, so I'm not going to have him attack every single person. But I (try) to provide support for the party when I can't do my primary thing, casting spells.

On the other hand, Xavros "Gamble" Carter (my previous toon) jumped into every opportunity for heroics. It doesn't mean I wasn't terrified of losing my toon, it was just who Xavros was (or how I RP'ed him). Actually Xavros died dead (like perma dead, HP below con score dead) and only survived due to a combination of player help/GM grace. And that's mainly because each death was a choice by myself and Lance to sacrifice ourselves in order to help the team out of potentially extremely bad spots.
(Disclaimer- Xavros is my favorite character that I've made, even if he did start out as a bad riff of Gambit from X-Men).

I've already discussed why losing a toon is hard for me. I find it extremely difficult to come up with an interesting character that is also different from my last if I start going through characters to quickly. And as far as a backup, never. Once I create a new toon, then I feel like I'm basically letting go of the one I have before he dies.

I find that when I make a character I tend to create a back story for them. They become more than just stats on the paper but to do that I have to mentally commit to that character. This makes it hard to stay focused on a predecessor. This is just my experience but I know a player that creates a billion characters a week and he's good until he writes a background then the current character becomes unimportant and he gives up his awesome Sewer Ninja for some Wild Child... I might have said too much.

I've never fully lost a character.  I've lost NPCs that were part of me, but never a character.  They were always able to be brought back.  The first time I was ever killed, though, I was livid. I get really attached to the characters I create, and I out thought into their backgrounds and what I feel their story is.  I love the way a personality begins to evolve.  

However, I don't usually run from any kind of combat.  Even at times when I should have, I've stuck in.  I think I even had to teleport  us out of encounters, because we took on more than we could survive.  

I think it is important for the player to feel connected to their character.  It makes the game more enjoyable.  However, you shouldn't be so connected that you don't enjoy playing because you are so afraid of losing what you've created.

I don't mind characters dying, i feel like it adds to the overall story and makes the world seem real. Maybe I'm just desensitized to it.

Dark Shoo wrote:I don't mind characters dying, i feel like it adds to the overall story and makes the world seem real. Maybe I'm just desensitized to it.

You did like to die in Against the Giants... a lot actually.

Cambria wrote:I've never fully lost a character.  I've lost NPCs that were part of me, but never a character.  They were always able to be brought back.  The first time I was ever killed, though, I was livid.  I get really attached to the characters I create, and I out thought into their backgrounds and what I feel their story is.  I love the way a personality begins to evolve.

This is the problem I have. The better my characters are, the more in touch with them I feel. But it's also a matter of do I trust my team to bring me back if my toon dies. With Xavros I did trust them (as I said he true died many times, but was still alive at the "end" of the campaign). That said in our current campaign, for one I don't feel as attached to my illusionist (no background, and I'm still just not good with spellcasters) and I don't know I would trust the party to not leave me for dead if shit got real. I wouldn't say this completely stops me from participation (I've used my Beat Stick on lizard folk, humans, frog people, and duergar), but it does give me pause and make me even more cautious. Especially since an "average" hit of 10 (as Lem put) completely puts me down.

Wow... Khour even showed up for this discussion! You and I were the dynamic duo, so I never let you stay dead for long when I was around. Miss you Khourie.

The Reality Tailor wrote:This is the problem I have. The better my characters are, the more in touch with them I feel. But it's also a matter of do I trust my team to bring me back if my toon dies. With Xavros I did trust them (as I said he true died many times, but was still alive at the "end" of the campaign). That said in our current campaign, for one I don't feel as attached to my illusionist (no background, and I'm still just not good with spellcasters) and I don't know I would trust the party to not leave me for dead if shit got real. I wouldn't say this completely stops me from participation (I've used my Beat Stick on lizard folk, humans, frog people, and duergar), but it does give me pause and make me even more cautious. Especially since an "average" hit of 10 (as Lem put) completely puts me down.

If you aren't really attached to your character, why not just go in with guns blazing. I am almost positive that your party would be more inclined to not leave you dead dead if you were proactive and did all you could to help. I understand playing cautiously, but still play. And besides, if you die, you can create a character that you will feel more attached to.


Here is another question for everyone. If you do die in game, should the DM allow you to create a character that matches the other player's levels, or should you have to start over at level 1?

I personally think that if you died helping the party, and not from complete stupidity (like not paying attention, or running from a battle), you should be allowed to create a character that is the level of the lowest level player in the game.

With this character, going in guns blazing is basically this. Swing, miss, get hit, be dead. I don't run but my max hp is 8 I think. There has even been a battle or two where the dice have just been in my favor and I was the only one hitting (our enemies). A wizard should be played from the back whenever possible. But like I said, with Xavros, guns blazing every time. It largely depends on the mindset you create for the character. Xavvy was a street urchin who constantly gambled with his life. I picture Calaghan as more of a bookish, reserved type of character. But yet neither were played as straight archtypes, because my illusionist does try to fight when possible. And Xavy was savvy about knowing when to run over gambling.

Basically, you have to play your character consistently, while being aware of the situation. Also, I think characters should be played with a bit of a sense of survival instinct. If a situation is turning desperately ugly, that toon wanting to leave should be a valid thought. Survival instincts are real.

And as far as if you do die of anything other then attentive or stupidness, I think the party average - 1 is what we go with. I don't recall. But I do recall agreeing with the fairness of it.

Also, if this isn't quite cohesive, I'm exhausted and think I've gained an immunity to caffeine.

Cambria wrote:
Here is another question for everyone.  If you do die in game, should the DM allow you to create a character that matches the other player's levels, or should you have to start over at level 1?

I personally think that if you died helping the party, and not from complete stupidity (like not paying attention, or running from a battle), you should be allowed to create a character that is the level of the lowest level player in the game.  

I know what it's like to roll up a new character at level 1 when the players are on an adventure designed to challenge level 4 characters.  It sucks and you are likely to have single digit health but be struck by enemies that do 10 damage average.  I also know how detached player are to characters when they start out high level.  I want may players to care about their toon and that requires time.  jumping in at level 5 gives the player a great amount of power(relative) and not attachment to the game or the world that character walks in.  This goes extra for casters who gradually learn to use the spells they have to their fullest as they go up in levels, jumping in with level 4 spells leaves the player detached from the lower level building block spells.

I also don't think its fair that players work their ass off to survive and the guy that dies comes in at the same level.  Yeah it might not have been that guy's fault but it's still unfair.  So I usually do [average level of the party]-1, I think it's fair to all involved.  You aren't dying for being too low but the shine isn't stolen from those in the lead.  In my ideal game starting level is 1 until the average is 5, 5 until the average is 10, 10 until 15, and no one ever survives beyond 15.  Ideally, lol.

I don't get to play very much so any character I create I become attached to from the beginning. But I don't usually get to play for long so!the average level I get them is 7 I have only one character that made it up to a high level and he hits too hard for your average campaign. But I am attached to my guy now and I know its only a matter of time before he gets killed. Will is break my heart? Hell yeah it will! Will it stop me from jumping into fights? Hell No! It's like the lottery you got!to be in it to win it.

We had an instance where everyone else in the group was down and running would have been a great idea. We were out numbered and i was low on HP. Run then come back no shame in it. But I didn't. I said let me take a chance and dr:alien: ing up one guy. He said I got this. I looked at him and said you're sure? He said yes. So brought him up and we won that fight. I took a chance and risked my characters life on a hail marry pass and it paid off. He trusted me to bring him back and I trusted him to do his thing. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I agree, no matter how you feel about your character when you sit at a table you are signing a social contract to join in the adventure and give your all so that neither GM nor PCs are wasting their time.

If they die They Die ......Not to say that I am not going to feel some sort of way about it (especially if its someone else's Fault) but it would never stop me from playing the way I do. I have had many good characters over time and when my dice failed me on a save or a skill check and he was called home I would mourn and move on with the hope he was worthy of the Archives (Hall of Fame Book we Kept)
Now There were also Real Shit Characters that I had that I wish would die but they seemed to go on for ever

Malevolent Moose wrote:If they die They Die ......Not to say that I am not going to feel some sort of way about it (especially if its someone else's Fault) but it would never stop me from playing the way I do. I have had many good characters over time and when my dice failed me on a save or a skill check and he was called home I would mourn and move on with the hope he was worthy of the Archives (Hall of Fame Book we Kept)
Now There were also Real Shit Characters that I had that I wish would die but they seemed to go on for ever  

We shall begin a Book of Heroes, what go you say guys?

You will Never Get Etrigan even when he is dead................

Dude, don't fear the reaper

Ain't never scared

I Assassinated your punk-ass Hydra Didn't I..............

Malevolent Moose wrote:I Assassinated  your punk-ass Hydra Didn't I..............

Yes. yes you did. Can't wait for the next encounter I force upon ya.

You know with that crappy ass loot you gave us we may have to go in and kill that damn white dragon. Which wouldn't be too hard once you take away its breath weapon.

Toepoker wrote:You know with that crappy ass loot you gave us we may have to go in and kill that damn white dragon.  Which wouldn't be too hard once you take away its breath weapon.

I'm glad you guys have high aspirations. I think I was pretty generous with the loot but if you want more you know where to find it. Don't speak about it, be about it(I believe that's how them young hippity-hoppers say it).

A dragon's hoard is only gained by facing the dragon.... not running. So go back, face it, and maybe the treasure will be greater.

Lem said he was more generous with the treasure to prove me wrong.... so you're welcome.

Cambria wrote:A dragon's hoard is only gained by facing the dragon....  not running.  So go back, face it, and maybe the treasure will be greater.

Lem said he was more generous with the treasure to prove me wrong.... so you're welcome.

This

I have a question. On this thread it says dont fear the reaper. What happens when the reaped bring death nothing but its own reflection? That dragon will die just so we the players can make our point fair loot for fair kills. We slayed your hydra stole from a white dragon, slayed one of your booty bosses, whupped on some kobolds for about an hour. And only lost 1 party member since entering this pile of kindling.