The 'A' Team

Should players be forced to work as a team? The very nature of table-top roleplaying encourages players to sit and adventure together, solving puzzles and battling awesome and memorable enemies. However I have come across a group of players that want to roleplay but have no real interest in roleplaying with each other. As I have no intentions of turning my game into a collection of individual sessions I begin to wonder whether forcing them to play together is the right thing to do.

Should players be forced to play as a team?

The Bubbling Dark wrote:Should players be forced to work as a team? The very nature of table-top roleplaying encourages players to sit and adventure together, solving puzzles and battling awesome and memorable enemies. However I have come across a group of players that want to roleplay but have no real interest in roleplaying with each other. As I have no intentions of turning my game into a collection of individual sessions I begin to wonder whether forcing them to play together is the right thing to do.

Should players be forced to play as a team?

Well unfortunately there's only two answers to this as I see.

1) Let the players play as they see fit. Of course, seeing as they are not using teamwork, the natural consequences of this will be more difficult encounters, more severe injuries/deaths and possibly general annoyance. This could be bad because it might lead to a declined interest in the campaign, and the campaign's eventual termination.

2) Come up with a way to encourage players to work together. However, this may make certain people feel like they're playing a pre-scripted character and makingno choices for themselves.

My thoughts, maybe someone else will have something better.

I have seen this in games before, but never ALL of the characters wanting to play separated. If there are one or two that don't like to team up, there is a way around it. However, it seems to me in your situation that the dynamic of your group might be off, or they do not understand the whole concept of table top gaming. If they want individually based campaigns, they should play video games.

I do not think players should be forced to play, but that is the whole point... If you have to force the dynamic of the group then the group itself is not cohesive and not a good make-up.

Is this making sense?

Basically, what I am saying is that for a group to work, they have to enjoy each other and enjoy working together. It isn't like monopoly where everyone is out for themselves. The story cannot progress properly if you have to go to different offshoots of the story constantly.

Cambria wrote:I have seen this in games before, but never ALL of the characters wanting to play separated. If there are one or two that don't like to team up, there is a way around it. However, it seems to me in your situation that the dynamic of your group might be off, or they do not understand the whole concept of table top gaming. If they want individually based campaigns, they should play video games.

I do not think players should be forced to play, but that is the whole point... If you have to force the dynamic of the group then the group itself is not cohesive and not a good make-up.

Is this making sense?

Basically, what I am saying is that for a group to work, they have to enjoy each other and enjoy working together. It isn't like monopoly where everyone is out for themselves. The story cannot progress properly if you have to go to different offshoots of the story constantly.

Your wisdom always shine true like the brilliance of your smile.
[i]Verse by Dally The Great

The issue is that there are only every 2-3 players in the game. Both players want to play but have expressed a deepening dislike for the each others playing style.

PC 1, Wild Child: Plays to have fun, beat up enemies, causing a spectacle, content with earning what she earns. She longs to be powerful and get's frustrated with the progression of the game. Will make something happen if the game begins to drag. She is the type of player that when planning seems to be taking too long will run off half-baked and just kick in the door.

PC 2, The Main Character: Plays for the story, only likes to fight when it is obvious that she has the advantage, hates the challenge, feels like she should be given everything she wants without the rp necessary to earn it. She is the most powerful character but is obsessed with the idea of her own ineptitude. She believes that she has no idea how to roleplay so rather than play a situation out she argues with the GM of an hour (literally) about putting her in scenarios she can not play through. She wants to plan everything out but is convinced that the GM is against her and will bring all of her plans crashing down around her.

So with these two what happens is The Main Character wants to plan but doesn't want to really put in her input because the GM is going to screw them over anyway and the The Wild Child gets bored and charges in 'Leroy Jenkins' style!

Their getting sick of the bickering and hate that I make them travel together but don't want to stop playing.

The Bubbling Dark wrote:The issue is that there are only every 2-3 players in the game. Both players want to play but have expressed a deepening dislike for the each others playing style.

PC 1, Wild Child: Plays to have fun, beat up enemies, causing a spectacle, content with earning what she earns. She longs to be powerful and get's frustrated with the progression of the game. Will make something happen if the game begins to drag. She is the type of player that when planning seems to be taking too long will run off half-baked and just kick in the door.

PC 2, The Main Character: Plays for the story, only likes to fight when it is obvious that she has the advantage, hates the challenge, feels like she should be given everything she wants without the rp necessary to earn it. She is the most powerful character but is obsessed with the idea of her own ineptitude. She believes that she has no idea how to roleplay so rather than play a situation out she argues with the GM of an hour (literally) about putting her in scenarios she can not play through. She wants to plan everything out but is convinced that the GM is against her and will bring all of her plans crashing down around her.

So with these two what happens is The Main Character wants to plan but doesn't want to really put in her input because the GM is going to screw them over anyway and the The Wild Child gets bored and charges in 'Leroy Jenkins' style!

Their getting sick of the bickering and hate that I make them travel together but don't want to stop playing.

Why would they? if you look at it, despite everything they are probably haveing so much fun they cant admit to it

It sounds to me like you need to have an intervention of some sort. They need to see that working together, and sharing ideas, and taking chances is what the game is all about.

Here is an idea. Do a "mini" scenario outside of the main campaign, and tell them that anything goes. They use their current characters at their current levels, but no experience points will be given or taken away. If they die in the this, they do not die in the main game. If they lose any gear or items or anything in this, they do not actually lose it in the game. Do a story that gives them a challenge that they have to think about, an encounter they have to fight their way out of, and a situation in which they HAVE to depend on each other to make it out of... all of which could even be in the same encounter.

This will accomplish a few things. #1 - They will have to work together, but will see the benefits. #2 - The hesitant player will be able to play without the fear of losing anything, and then will in turn be able to see how much more fun it is to put yourself out there and accept the challenge. #3 - Taking them outside of the game with no consequences to the actual campaign will give them a freedom to try things without the fear of fucking things up for themselves, and maybe will show them that sometimes it is worth getting down to no hit points or losing the awesome magical item.

I know that when I first started playing, I really second guessed myself and was afraid to act. It took me dying by the hands of an evil medagamer to really break me of that. Also, being around more experienced players, seeing how they played, and learning from them helped me. Maybe you should bring in someone that can DM and let you play so they can see how it is.

Cambria wrote: Maybe you should bring in someone that can DM and let you play so they can see how it is.

I would love to do this very thing but there is no one to play the role of GM plus the fact that we play at home limits who I could call in to help. Both have GMed little games for each other and their other sister but neither is willing to GM for me because they think I'll be judgmental about their style (their image of me is so es cue it drives me crazy. I judge but not on the exaggerated scale they believe. Shit, I'm so desperate for one of them to try that I would go out of my way to suppress what few comments I would have). An opportunity to let loose and live or die beside them instead of being their enemy would be awesome.

I'm always telling them about getting into character and doing what your character would do and not what they would do. I talk about THE GREAT GROMWOLD and his awesome adventures but all they get from those stories is I'm a dick... lol. They need a mentor, some more advanced player that can show them their potential but I don't know how to get them one because I am OZ and they don't trust my evil big floating head ass.

The Bubbling Dark wrote:

Cambria wrote: Maybe you should bring in someone that can DM and let you play so they can see how it is.

I would love to do this very thing but there is no one to play the role of GM plus the fact that we play at home limits who I could call in to help. Both have GMed little games for each other and their other sister but neither is willing to GM for me because they think I'll be judgmental about their style (their image of me is so es cue it drives me crazy. I judge but not on the exaggerated scale they believe. Shit, I'm so desperate for one of them to try that I would go out of my way to suppress what few comments I would have). An opportunity to let loose and live or die beside them instead of being their enemy would be awesome.

I'm always telling them about getting into character and doing what your character would do and not what they would do. I talk about THE GREAT GROMWOLD and his awesome adventures but all they get from those stories is I'm a dick... lol. They need a mentor, some more advanced player that can show them their potential but I don't know how to get them one because I am OZ and they don't trust my evil big floating head ass.

this makes me laugh but i think if you can get a hold of chad you can make it work. you can do it at my house they are all welcome there. you can pc for once and make it look cool as hell. plus i kinda miss my mentor playing as a PC.

Wandering Omen wrote:
this makes me laugh but i think if you can get a hold of chad you can make it work. you can do it at my house they are all welcome there. you can pc for once and make it look cool as hell. plus i kinda miss my mentor playing as a PC.

They ONLY play at home so travel isn't an option. Chad is an option he's played over before and they liked him but Chad lack DQ experience and that's the system they are most comfortable with, don't want to switch too much too fast. It would definitely be cool to get a more experienced roleplayer who is willing to show them the ropes. It will be hard for me because they don't trust me, as a GM(because of my motto 'stupidity should be punished) and as a PC(because Lance is always full of stories about me being a dick... never me saving the party or sacrificing myself).

CHAD!

The Bubbling Dark wrote:

Wandering Omen wrote:
this makes me laugh but i think if you can get a hold of chad you can make it work. you can do it at my house they are all welcome there. you can pc for once and make it look cool as hell. plus i kinda miss my mentor playing as a PC.

They ONLY play at home so travel isn't an option. Chad is an option he's played over before and they liked him but Chad lack DQ experience and that's the system they are most comfortable with, don't want to switch too much too fast. It would definitely be cool to get a more experienced roleplayer who is willing to show them the ropes. It will be hard for me because they don't trust me, as a GM(because of my motto 'stupidity should be punished) and as a PC(because Lance is always full of stories about me being a dick... never me saving the party or sacrificing myself).

CHAD!

Chad you should reply to this shyt, you can be helping out lem a great deal. He hasnt always been a dick when it came to RPing, and these young buck believe the older crowd are just a bunch of assholes. we are not assholes we are experienced (or in your case seasoned) players. when they see him pc they will love him like we did... all night long lol

I'm down for the opportunity but I think he would need to play for a bit so that he is more familiar with the system and more comfortable. Plus he needs time to plan a complete adventure.

The Bubbling Dark wrote:I'm down for the opportunity but I think he would need to play for a bit so that he is more familiar with the system and more comfortable. Plus he needs time to plan a complete adventure.

No not at all, he is a White Man! his greatest ability is to weave stories of absolute beilievable bullshyt on the fly.

Wandering Omen wrote:

The Bubbling Dark wrote:I'm down for the opportunity but I think he would need to play for a bit so that he is more familiar with the system and more comfortable. Plus he needs time to plan a complete adventure.

No not at all, he is a White Man! his greatest ability is to weave stories of absolute beilievable bullshyt on the fly.

Actually he is part Sicilian and as such I have seen him get brain farts in the middle of adventures we were co-GMing. He's got just enough black in him to fuck with his bullshitometer.

The Bubbling Dark wrote:

Wandering Omen wrote:

The Bubbling Dark wrote:I'm down for the opportunity but I think he would need to play for a bit so that he is more familiar with the system and more comfortable. Plus he needs time to plan a complete adventure.

No not at all, he is a White Man! his greatest ability is to weave stories of absolute beilievable bullshyt on the fly.

Actually he is part Sicilian and as such I have seen him get brain farts in the middle of adventures we were co-GMing. He's got just enough black in him to fuck with his bullshitometer.

My ribs are broken from the laughter, i got from this ty good sir another good day lies in store for me.

Are there any suggestions that don't entail a new GM and a side game?

The Bubbling Dark wrote:Are there any suggestions that don't entail a new GM and a side game?

Personally I like Anessa's idea the most. The only other thing I can think of is to bring another player into your campaign who has some expiernce and isn't afraid to do something just because he/she is afraid it might work out/you might not allow it. The person could explain their reasoning to both of your players in regards to the decisions they make. What consequences they think their decision will have, how it will play out, etc. This will allow your players to possibly get a better grasp of how ro roleplay, and might help them to realize that as an adventurer, their characters are always at risk of losing anything, up to and including their lives. It may also help them to see that you as the GM are the storyteller and not the ever present unsurpassable obstacle. Hope that helps, lol.

I think a big problem is they see me as the kind of GM that always says no, like Chris Bauer. I'm not but they have had bad experiences...

Example:

PC2 wants to learn a new type of magic for her spellcaster. She expects to just learn it. I said no you'll have to find someone to teach you. She starts litterally knocking on all of her neighbor's doors and asking anyone who answers the door whether they know magic. Now i could been a sappy lame GM and just given her what she wanted but I let her eventually find a clue to a guy that could point her in the right direction (as spellcasters were few and far between). SHe took all the nos as the rule and now won't search for anything because she's convinced that I'll refuse.

Whenever she needs something not at hand she's convinced that I'll say no instead of understanding what I have repeatedly told her. You can't just search, you need to search in the right place.

The Bubbling Dark wrote:I think a big problem is they see me as the kind of GM that always says no, like Chris Bauer. I'm not but they have had bad experiences...

Example:

PC2 wants to learn a new type of magic for her spellcaster. She expects to just learn it. I said no you'll have to find someone to teach you. She starts litterally knocking on all of her neighbor's doors and asking anyone who answers the door whether they know magic. Now i could been a sappy lame GM and just given her what she wanted but I let her eventually find a clue to a guy that could point her in the right direction (as spellcasters were few and far between). SHe took all the nos as the rule and now won't search for anything because she's convinced that I'll refuse.

Whenever she needs something not at hand she's convinced that I'll say no instead of understanding what I have repeatedly told her. You can't just search, you need to search in the right place.

Well in that instance PC2 needs to understand that roleplaying is similar to real life in that not everyone knows everything. If you were to say, ask me how to get to MSG, I could probably tell you. However, if you ask me how to build a generator, I'm going to look at you like your smoking something. Perhaps sitting down with PC2 and explaining this, it may prove useful. Past that, well I'll try to think of something else, but I'm blank for now.

I have played with both of the ladies. My hope then was to see me interact with Asshole Lem and see that he is not that much of an ass. Nono even played with you as Co-PC's.

Was this forgotten by them. I felt you two worked together cohesively.

Maybe you push for a couple of us to go there and play with you all. Maybe watching other players react differently to your puzzles might change their prospective on Rping. Hey its not impossible i just need to ask the right question!

i think the group is soooo used to each others style that they became blinded to the options. Fresh meat would be the move, subtle as well. a slow corruption in change. Look outside the box.

Also if I get more used to DQ, I will DM.

Leetin McBeatin wrote:I have played with both of the ladies. My hope then was to see me interact with Asshole Lem and see that he is not that much of an ass. Nono even played with you as Co-PC's.

Was this forgotten by them. I felt you two worked together cohesively.

Maybe you push for a couple of us to go there and play with you all. Maybe watching other players react differently to your puzzles might change their prospective on Rping. Hey its not impossible i just need to ask the right question!

i think the group is soooo used to each others style that they became blinded to the options. Fresh meat would be the move, subtle as well. a slow corruption in change. Look outside the box.

Also if I get more used to DQ, I will DM.

My genius is forever....

Leetin McBeatin wrote:I have played with both of the ladies. My hope then was to see me interact with Asshole Lem and see that he is not that much of an ass. Nono even played with you as Co-PC's.

Was this forgotten by them. I felt you two worked together cohesively.

Maybe you push for a couple of us to go there and play with you all. Maybe watching other players react differently to your puzzles might change their prospective on Rping. Hey its not impossible i just need to ask the right question!

i think the group is soooo used to each others style that they became blinded to the options. Fresh meat would be the move, subtle as well. a slow corruption in change. Look outside the box.

Also if I get more used to DQ, I will DM.

I think the only thing No-No took from our games of C&C with you is if shit gets real I intend to survive even if she doesn't... Maybe I AM a dick. :/

The Bubbling Dark wrote:

Leetin McBeatin wrote:I have played with both of the ladies. My hope then was to see me interact with Asshole Lem and see that he is not that much of an ass. Nono even played with you as Co-PC's.

Was this forgotten by them. I felt you two worked together cohesively.

Maybe you push for a couple of us to go there and play with you all. Maybe watching other players react differently to your puzzles might change their prospective on Rping. Hey its not impossible i just need to ask the right question!

i think the group is soooo used to each others style that they became blinded to the options. Fresh meat would be the move, subtle as well. a slow corruption in change. Look outside the box.

Also if I get more used to DQ, I will DM.

I think the only thing No-No took from our games of C&C with you is if shit gets real I intend to survive even if she doesn't... Maybe I AM a dick. :/

Lem, as a pc, you are a dick. But they need to know that you're fairer as dm.

you weaved this very tangled web. it will take time to create change.

There has definitely been progress. Lance quit and when I explained that it was partly because he felt they would rather stand around and complain instead of taking action they were up in arms. They felt that the accusations were unfounded yet next session and adventures after they move even if they don't want to be involved. Not sure how but Lance lit a torch under them and they roleplay far more now...

Thanks for being a giant diaper baby, Beast, you saved my game!